Inclusivity in the Wellness Space with Nikkia Young (31)

Today's episode talks about a very important topic inclusivity in the wellness space. I got to have a conversation with Nakia Young about her experience in a marginalized body in the running and yoga community. We unpack what body positivity is and if it's helpful or if it's harmful, and how to reframe your relationship with fitness and find a way.

00;00;45;15 - 00;01;18;23
Unknown
Hi everyone, and welcome to how the wise one grows. Let's take a moment to just drop in and ground together. So settle into a space that feels safe and supportive for you. If it's safe for you. You can gently rest your eyes and just notice where your body is touching the earth. Feel your spine lengthen as your head reaches towards the sky and slowly soft and your shoulders down the back.

00;01;20;27 - 00;02;06;28
Unknown
Take a big breath and in a big breath out. Two more. Inhale. Exhale. Inhale. And exhale. And return to that sensation of your body being held by the earth. And you can slowly open your eyes and just land here with us. I'm so excited because today I get to be in person with someone I haven't actually seen in person since pre-pandemic at least.

00;02;07;01 - 00;02;33;14
Unknown
Yeah, it's been a long time. So I'm so excited. And this is the first time she's in my home. Just love it. So I'm here today with Nikki. Right, To Nikki. Sarah lives in Richmond, Virginia, where she's a part of a supportive running community, which is where we first met right? Yeah. Yeah. She coaches new walkers and runners in five K, eight K, ten K and half marathon distances.

00;02;34;04 - 00;03;10;06
Unknown
She has recently served as president and treasurer of the Richmond Roadrunners Club, where she's also a race director. Nikki represents a myriad of amazing companies, such as salt stick, pro compression, spy belt and fitness protection program. That one kills me today. She has completed 27 half marathons and four full marathons. That same her top accomplishments so far are PR in the Chicago Marathon in 2018.

00;03;10;27 - 00;03;36;19
Unknown
When she is not training for her next road race, she is a financial analyst and active volunteer for her beloved sorority, Alpha Sigma Alpha and a dog mom to the cutest basset beagle named Ranger. I love that name. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. What her bio didn't mention is Nikki also has a great podcast called Talking Points with Kiara.

00;03;36;20 - 00;03;56;01
Unknown
Yeah, I basically, during the pandemic, had the time and the space to finally do something that I'd put out there for a long time. And so I got a coach and I got like, Yeah, get a podcast coach is the fun. Like, it's one of those things where you don't realize what you don't know until somebody teaches you.

00;03;56;12 - 00;04;20;06
Unknown
And so I've reached out. I had gotten a scholarship through a friend and so having this conversation with a woman named Nikita and Journey Girl Magic Productions, and she helped me kind of get those pieces together, get my what my content was going to be together, and then how to edit. So I edit a lot of my podcast, which is why they are short form.

00;04;22;06 - 00;04;47;29
Unknown
I was so resistant to the editing, but I actually ended up really enjoying it. Nice. Yes, it's funny because I one of my many things in my background is that I am a vocal performance major. I have a vocal performance degree in music degree and I hated meeting myself. But then I think what's been nice is that it's a way for me to think about, okay, how did I share that idea?

00;04;48;00 - 00;05;17;18
Unknown
How am I going to share those ideas in the future? And I think it has helped me be better, even just communicating. I completely agree with that. It's weird. Like you don't realize what you don't know, and yet you start exploring it. Yeah, well, I feel like there's so many things we could talk about today, but today I want our focus, our conversation to kind of focus on the two spaces we've gotten to know each other through which are yoga and running, but kind of encompassing the wellness space as a whole.

00;05;18;24 - 00;05;38;10
Unknown
So I think that an important part of the conversation that isn't at the forefront of things as much as it should be, it is more these days, but is inclusivity in the wellness space. So do you mind first kind of sharing how you identify and how you got involved in the wellness space? Because you're very involved in it?

00;05;38;14 - 00;06;02;29
Unknown
Yeah. So I actually started out as a well, and I still I still am. So I am a plus size black runner and a woman too, because honestly, I feel like that those identities are sometimes not well-represented in wellness faces. It certainly is. And it's interesting because you would think like, well, of course I see plenty of women, I see plenty of black people like.

00;06;03;16 - 00;06;26;16
Unknown
And then you get to the plus size piece and you're like, Oh, wait a minute. So when I graduated college, I moved to Richmond. I just was looking for something and my job at the time was really cool. About Slager funding people, doing the Tim Kay doing the half marathon. So I was like, All right, well, I'll sign up for the case and somebody is going to pay for it.

00;06;26;28 - 00;06;58;27
Unknown
Did the 10-K training team and loved it was not the fastest? I am not. I've never been the fastest. Like I am strongly in the caboose. And honestly, most good races business in the front party in the back, kind of like a mullet. And so basically I like I train, I showed up, the coaches were there, they were supportive and I got to the end of my first six mile run and a coach looks at me and goes, You look like you can run six more.

00;06;58;27 - 00;07;23;08
Unknown
And I said, Well, maybe I can run. And then I ended up signing up for the team. So was your first like intro to Running? Signing up for the Tank? That was well, it was my first intro to Richmond running. I done a couple like five KS and things back in Roanoke. I went to Roanoke College, and during that summer I was kind of like trying to find what what kind of physical fitness thing I wanted to get back into.

00;07;23;27 - 00;07;43;01
Unknown
I run and done a lot in high school, like I'd done volleyball, but I've always been a larger person. And I think that for me was like, Oh, well, like maybe I'll just like, go out there, work out really hard, drop some weight and then keep it and then like, you know, start my adult life anew. And that's not really how that works.

00;07;43;05 - 00;08;09;20
Unknown
So yeah, and honestly, it's transitioned from that like, oh, it's this is a weight loss journey. Like I'm just trying to better myself. And now it's been more of a, I'm just doing this because I enjoy it. I love the feeling. I love like accomplishing different goals and things that I set out for myself. I've always been goal oriented, so it's been fun to like throw something out there and be like, I'm going to do that.

00;08;10;01 - 00;08;31;00
Unknown
Yeah. And just and sometimes just try it. And then if you don't like it, you can always go back and readjust and change the goal. So yeah, well that's something I really want to talk about more is and I think it's a very common thing in my experience, especially with women that we associate exercise with there being less of us.

00;08;31;01 - 00;08;54;07
Unknown
Yeah, it's like I need to workout or go to the gym or go on a run because my body needs to be smaller. There actually physically needs to be less of me. And I think that's really detrimental to the conversation we're having with ourselves. We're taught we need to be less then all the time. Right? And I remember for me at one point my health shifted.

00;08;54;07 - 00;09;19;22
Unknown
I had shingles. I was on steroids for a long time. I gained like 50, £60, and I just was fixated on this needing less then. And then I got really mad and I was like, You know what? This doesn't work. That's not how I want to feel about myself. And I shifted it to being thinking about being excited for what my body could do and being stronger in my body and thinking about bringing more of me.

00;09;19;22 - 00;09;39;01
Unknown
Yeah, and that was a shift, but I don't think that is a part of the conversation a lot. So I'm curious about how you found that shift within yourself. I think for me the biggest thing was realizing that there was nothing wrong with me. Yes, I don't know if you know her. If she goes by t rex, you've probably you've seen her sing.

00;09;39;01 - 00;09;58;26
Unknown
But she has a background in Eastern medicine and Western medicine. We sat down and our not our odds this day and I was like, what? I was like, I just can't like, nothing's working. And I'm like, I'm just really frustrated by the fact that, like, I'm doing more. I'm running longer, you know, I'm I'm lifting more weights, I'm doing all the things why isn't my body shifting?

00;09;59;04 - 00;10;16;04
Unknown
And she was like, Is is there anything wrong with it? Like, do you hurt? Like, are you like? And when she said wrong, it wasn't like framing it as the weight was wrong. You know, it was more so framing like, are you in pain or is there something that's not moving the way it shouldn't? And I was like, no.

00;10;16;05 - 00;10;42;01
Unknown
And I walked away from that conversation. And I will say that probably was one of the first times that someone said something like that to me, and I was like, Oh my gosh, there's nothing wrong. My labs have been great for years. That's so beautiful to hear. And I think that's so important to name because there's it's deeply embedded in our society and culture that like being fat, being bigger is wrong.

00;10;42;02 - 00;11;20;26
Unknown
It's like a problem to be solved. Yeah, it's lazy. It shows whatever they put in your head about these things and it's not in fact true. And then it actually diminishes the voices of people in different, different bodies. When something is wrong, they point it to well, like, have you, have you tried dropping weight? Yeah. It's like, well, like most, most plus size people and I hate to be like, everybody feels this way, but I feel like most plus-size people when they've gone to the doctor, whether it was for like a head cold or a migraine or even something that's not even remotely related to the size of your body have been told like, Oh,

00;11;20;26 - 00;11;44;20
Unknown
well, just drop some weight and I'll fix everything. And it's like, that's, that's not how that works. Problem. Yeah, Yeah. And also and when it comes to things like yeah, if your labs are healthy, you are healthy. This is the way that your body is, is thriving in the world right now. There is nothing wrong with that. And I think it's we have it so embedded in our heads, but it's just this cultural thing.

00;11;44;20 - 00;12;02;28
Unknown
It is. And it's hard to fight. I think one of the things, too, I think we're seeing more of it in some wellness spaces, but we're also still seeing some of those harmful messages. And I mean, I have to catch myself sometimes when I'm doomscrolling it's like, Oh, I just received that message. I don't I don't need to take that in.

00;12;02;28 - 00;12;27;18
Unknown
I don't need to to, to internalize that because that's not that's not really how I view myself. And so that's I think we're seeing more of it in the space, but we need to see more of it. I think it's just a it's going to take a cultural shift and not just in wellness, but in like America. Yeah, I think it's it's and I'm sure it's not even just an American problem, but we live here so I can see it.

00;12;27;18 - 00;12;51;06
Unknown
I think that's so important to name and I applaud your awareness of that. I think that's huge to kind of note. Most people don't write like I don't often when I'm scrolling, scrolling and these messages are going in our head, in our subconscious that are impacting how we feel and think and see. So when you have that awareness to be like, Wait, that's not true, that doesn't resonate with me.

00;12;51;06 - 00;13;21;08
Unknown
That's so empowering. Yeah, but I think you point out something really important, which are these messages in the wellness space and experiences that the wellness space create for people. And do you have any like examples of messages in particular in the wellness space or issues in the wellness space you feel passionate about? Yeah, I think, you know, one of the biggest things on top of like, oh, like plus size people, all you need to do is just try a little harder and do a little more.

00;13;21;08 - 00;13;41;17
Unknown
And, and it's like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Sometimes you literally need to do less. Yes, I think we all kind of need to do less right now. Sometimes it's not even doing more. And I that lesson kind of came from my friend coach, who she was like, I'm looking at. You're like, I wear a run watch and she can see it.

00;13;41;17 - 00;14;14;01
Unknown
It's uploaded to like the cloud and she can take and parse all the numbers and she's like, You're doing too much. She's like, I can literally sitting 20 seconds and I mean like peak Nike. That was was doing some wild stuff. I like cool like it was like three eight mile runs a week on top of the long run on the weekend and then slinging weight And then I was also taking spin class and then when I wasn't doing that, I was throwing an extra yoga class at the end of the day and, and it's like she's like, you're doing too much.

00;14;14;01 - 00;14;38;02
Unknown
She's like your your body is literally holding on for dear life. And that's probably what's happening. Well, your body goes into survival mode like rest is such it's a it's a necessary part of all of our bodies functions. And it allows you to strength and it allows your body to replenish and it allows your body to let go, too, when it's told like, hey, you're enough, it's enough.

00;14;38;02 - 00;14;59;04
Unknown
You can rest right now, then your nervous system can reset and your body's functions can work as they're meant to. Right? And I think that that's one of the things that I think so many of us, especially if you find yourself in a larger body or if you're like, I can't get rid of these last like five, £10, and maybe if I just do more, if I do more, sometimes it's literally doing less.

00;14;59;04 - 00;15;20;10
Unknown
That will help and you'll find that balance because I think that's where I had to like figure it out was like, what was the balance for me in my body? And also it changes from season to season, like there's some heavy run race seasons. I'm like, Yeah, this feels great. I feel like I'm in building period. And right now I'm in kind of like a break down period.

00;15;20;10 - 00;15;41;14
Unknown
Like what doesn't serve me as much? What can I take away? Is it just do I prefer to lift weights that are heavy or is it I'm doing more yoga instead of cardio? Is it, you know, just figuring out what that balance looks like for this body at this time and not comparing yourself to who you were when you were 25?

00;15;41;23 - 00;16;01;26
Unknown
Yeah, seriously, I think listening to your body in the present moment, like every day, every time you show up to whatever activity, whether it's a run or on the mat or at the gym or laying in bed, just being like, what do you need right now? Because your body is going to give you the best answer. Every time.

00;16;02;05 - 00;16;34;08
Unknown
Yeah, every time. Yeah. Have you experienced any what is your experience been like in the running space When you started running, what did you feel like? It was a very inclusive space from the start. Did you feel any tension in that area? Oh, there's very much tension and I think there's still it's like it's it's kind of funny, like even being, you know, the president or past president of the Richmond Writers Club and not saying like there's anything wrong with Richmond, because I think that we are a microcosm of the broader American run system.

00;16;34;08 - 00;16;55;23
Unknown
Right. So there's nothing wrong with the Richmond Runner's Club, if anything. I have been very welcome there. I've loved there. People know and people know who I am. And I hope that we can continue to extend that to more people in different spaces and places in their journey. But I think some of it is, is that people don't realize their own bias until they're confronted with it.

00;16;57;08 - 00;17;19;01
Unknown
And do you have me in your own home? You're like, Oh, she's taking too long. We need to take down the things. We need to do this. We need to do that. And it's like, Well, what kind of experience are we providing to people? If you know you're finishing a race and you win the race and you're coming back and rerunning the route, what do you think that says to people who are at their first race?

00;17;19;04 - 00;17;37;20
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, I'm so slow that the winners are doing a victory lap. And I know, I know people don't mean it maliciously, but that's an important awareness. But it's a view and I've run with people on one of their first races and they saw the winners coming back and they were like, Are we that slow? And it's like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is your race.

00;17;37;20 - 00;17;54;24
Unknown
Yeah, we are running, we are doing this, we're moving. We're still moving forward. Yeah. Like it's one of the most important things, I think, in running that we forget sometimes is that we're so focused on the numbers in the data and the, you know, like, oh, I need to make sure I hit this sprint this time and this at this time.

00;17;54;24 - 00;18;20;17
Unknown
And it's like sometimes you just need to like, let it go, get through your route, whether it's a hard run or not so hard run and go from there. But I think that that's there's some like awareness, things that the running community as a whole can work on. And even just time limits, like what are we saying to people when we're cutting folks off halfway through an event that they might have trained for four months?

00;18;20;29 - 00;18;43;20
Unknown
What are we saying? And I will say as a race director, I do know that you are at the mercy of your city, county government. So I, I will absolutely knowledge that because I feel like as race directors, we do not explain that well enough is that you are at the mercy of what the city gave you as far as your permit.

00;18;43;20 - 00;19;11;11
Unknown
So like you can a lot for more time, but that is going to cost your race a little bit more money. So I think being realistic in those spaces and places, but like also making sure like, hey, we don't expect you to do this in this amount of time. Let's open it up. Let's make sure our spaces accommodating for walkers or different kinds of bodies because, you know, we also have a very large adaptive athlete population in here, which is really kind of cool.

00;19;12;19 - 00;19;35;21
Unknown
And so making sure that we're not leaving anybody behind, even in the first round of rules, right? Yeah, that's something I had never really thought about before is how much a time barrier that puts on people. Because if you feel you can't finish a race in X amount of time because of what's happening in your body, that's a huge barrier preventing people from even stepping out and trying.

00;19;35;21 - 00;19;53;14
Unknown
Even trying. Yeah, we've seen it more and more and I think we're working on it like especially here in Richmond, we're working on expanding the time frames. Right. But with that whole like you're kind of at the mercy of the area that you're in. And you know what? Either the police or the county allows. Ashland half is a great example of that.

00;19;53;14 - 00;20;15;14
Unknown
Like in the past, we were able they they used to have to cut it off at 3 hours and that was because Hanover was like, hey, this is how long you can have the roads open. Sorry about it. And then after years of negotiating, they were finally able to convince them, Hey, let's start at 30 minutes earlier. If we start 30 minutes earlier, is that going to be a problem?

00;20;15;20 - 00;20;35;17
Unknown
So now it's expanded to 330, which is still lukewarm, as we've said, for a half. Yeah, I mean, but that opens up, especially if you're doing a half in the summer. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot. That's not the most amount of time you know would certainly be Oh there's and there's been longer folks and I'm a strong believer of like leaving no one behind.

00;20;35;17 - 00;21;00;18
Unknown
Yeah. So when I coach the half team like we, I've been out there I believe in being out there. So it might take people upwards of five, five and a half hours, especially if they're struggling with heat or, you know, maybe there's an injury that you sustained along the way, but you still want to finish. Yeah, And I think we just have to be realistic in some of those bases of like, hey, you can still accomplish this.

00;21;01;16 - 00;21;23;25
Unknown
How can we help you keep moving forward rather than like, the time is up? Let's throw you in the van and get you to the finish. Yeah, yeah. That's that's such a unfortunate feeling to put on someone when they have taken this huge step towards accomplishing something huge. Those people never will even try. Just showing up. Yeah, sometimes is really the victory.

00;21;23;25 - 00;21;38;15
Unknown
And I think that we have to continue to learn how to acknowledge that because I think for so many folks, even, you know, whether they're seasoned runners or new runners, they've put a number in their head. They're like, I'm going to get it in this time frame. Not thinking that you don't know what the weather's going to be like.

00;21;38;24 - 00;22;00;08
Unknown
You don't know if, like you're going to break a shoestring. I mean, the craziest things have happened. I've literally broken a bra in the middle of a marathon, so that's amazing. I would not recommend running the New York City marathon in a broken bra, a zip tied. Oh, my God. Zip, zip tied me back into it. Wow. Wow.

00;22;01;02 - 00;22;15;26
Unknown
Memorable. Yeah. I should literally hang it up in my house. I mean, I think I did that. You should do that, too. Don't trophy. So, yeah, I mean, you don't know what you're going to encounter on race day, but like, I think that's part of it too, right? Is like, okay, I can do this. I can conquer whatever comes my way.

00;22;15;26 - 00;22;38;06
Unknown
And that's what training is about. It's like you keep training over a period of time to hopefully encounter all the things you're going to encounter on race day and then go for it. Go for it when you get there. Yeah. How has because we were talking earlier about like the shift that you experienced from like wanting there to be less of you to being like, Hey, I am enough has your training kind of mirrored that at all?

00;22;38;06 - 00;23;00;13
Unknown
Yeah. And I also will say like the training helped. Yeah, right. It's like, Oh, my body did that. Like my body at ten miles in 90 degree heat, like we did it like, you know, it's one of those I think for me it was creating an appreciation for my body like rather than like somebody didn't hit that pace or this or this.

00;23;00;13 - 00;23;19;02
Unknown
It's like we got through that. We we conquered every mile. You know, you have to kind of approach every mile as its own mile because it that's how it comes, right? Is like the first mile is a liar sometimes. The second one is too, and sometimes the third one. And you just kind of keep going until you get to the end.

00;23;19;02 - 00;23;40;18
Unknown
You're like, I don't regret that. You know, like, I don't regret being able to move my body in that way. For me, it's also been like lifting weights and just seeing like, Oh, okay, I can lift that. Okay, let's, let's see what else my body can do. And kind of looking at yourself with wonder. Yeah. Rather than disdain.

00;23;40;21 - 00;24;02;25
Unknown
I love that Looking at yourself with wonder it kind of this piece reminds me of your episode on body positivity and how that there's more unpacking to that term to do than I think most people take. We take it as like, Oh, that sounds like a great thing off the bat, but it can be pretty detrimental. But I think what I'm hearing you say is like, it's not that.

00;24;03;22 - 00;24;34;27
Unknown
It's just like body positivity. I have to be in this almost like toxic positivity mindset about my body. It's like a conversation with your body and yes, experiencing compassion towards yourself and your body and getting to know it where it's at and kind of acknowledging the strength of it in each moment. Right. Because even like body neutrality, like, I think that even being neutral about your body, like it is a shell of it, like it is a shell of neutrality is such an important that's a great place to even get to, right.

00;24;34;27 - 00;24;51;01
Unknown
Because we have we know so many people that are in a space that are just like, Oh, I hate my body, I don't like it. So even if you can just get to like a neutral space of like, okay, this is the body I exist in. I think it's healthier all around to be in a body neutrality thing because a body of the body.

00;24;51;02 - 00;25;22;07
Unknown
A body? Yeah. Like the shell that we put all these attachments to it that aren't breakable so much. Exactly. And so I think for a lot of times people see and hear body positivity and think like those people love their bodies every day. It's like, you know, there's all yeah, it's like, oh, there's a mailer. It's like, ooh, I need to show my body love in a different way, whether that's recovery or nutrition or, you know, oh, we're going to just, you know, enjoy the couch for one day and then pick it back up another day or maybe and positivity.

00;25;22;07 - 00;25;44;09
Unknown
I think people just assume it's like like you love yourself with reckless abandon and it's like it's being positive about what your body can do. Yeah. So I would even I would honestly invite folks to just if body neutrality is where you're at that day, because of course, it ebbs and it flows neutrality. It's cool. I think it's a great place to thought.

00;25;44;09 - 00;26;07;19
Unknown
There is. I don't know if you're familiar with Amber Karnes. Amber Karnes used to be on the board at PR, and their work has evolved in more recent years, but they I might butcher exactly what their work was originally called, but it was based in body positivity, and I think it was under that umbrella. Overall term Amber kind is amazing.

00;26;07;26 - 00;26;36;10
Unknown
She is a bigger woman and she really focused on empowering people and bigger bodies. How to feel comfortable in the yoga space, right? And to empower your body and meet it where it's at. And then like education for teachers on how to support people with different bodies. So I was fortunate enough to take work from her. But one of the lessons she taught in a workshop I was at was like, there is the thought that you have right now, it's your base thought, and then there's your goal thought.

00;26;36;24 - 00;26;53;24
Unknown
And to go from that base thought of like maybe it's like I hate my body right now. And if you want your goal or like, my body is worthless, I can't do anything. Maybe that's my base thought. And maybe my goal thought is like, I have the best, most beautiful body in the world. You can't make that jump.

00;26;53;26 - 00;27;23;09
Unknown
Like, if I just replace that one with the other, it's not necessarily going to get me there. So there was a work worksheet with like different stepping stones. So like, okay, my baseline is like my body is the worst in the world or whatever. Then the next stop step is more of that body neutrality. It's like, I have a body, my body needs food, my body needs rest, My body can do things like all these different things that you can get your mind to believe.

00;27;23;16 - 00;27;50;09
Unknown
Like, only this is true. Once I can believe this is true, I can believe that is true. The next one. Yeah. And then eventually get you to where you need to be in a healthy way. And maybe along that way you change that goal thought to something that's more fitting and authentic to you and where you're at. But I come back to that on so many levels of life because I think just replacing a negative thought with something that we think is really positive, we think that's like a helpful healing thing.

00;27;50;09 - 00;28;09;10
Unknown
But if it doesn't match, it does on a level sometimes it is. It's because you're almost sometimes you could be ignoring it, right? So let's say you are like, Oh, I don't feel good about my body. Okay, Well, is is the body in pain? Are we are we is there something that's not feeling right? Are we? I love that you come back to the physical like that.

00;28;09;13 - 00;28;32;22
Unknown
That person told you that was like, is there something is there physically, physically not clicking? Because sometimes I think that we like to ignore it, right? We we prior to the pandemic, and I think we're getting better about it. Thank you to the pandemic about it. But it's like we would ignore that we're sick or we would ignore that we're not feeling well and we push through and we keep going.

00;28;32;22 - 00;28;57;05
Unknown
And then, you know, your body, if you don't take a break, your body will take a break for you. And it won't always be it will tell you good time for that. And so I think, you know, and I'm I am happy to see the shift in transition away from the pandemic. Hopefully, that people are realizing that like, oh, I have the sniffles, I will stay home and like, that will be the normal.

00;28;57;05 - 00;29;15;22
Unknown
Yes. Listening to your body, not like I have a cold. It seems like a good work ethic. If I still like fire, sometimes you're hurting everyone. But listen. Yeah. And it's it's why? Because it's like, oh, three or four years ago, you know, you would have been like, Oh, well, no, that slacker didn't come in because they were sniffling.

00;29;15;28 - 00;29;38;08
Unknown
It's like, now I'm like, Thank goodness. I'm so glad that you thought not only of yourself, but the broader community of saying, Hey, I'm not feeling well, I'm going to remove myself from this situation so that I can take care of me and hopefully take care of someone else by not continuing to spread this. Yeah. So I think thinking in that way of like, oh, because we I think we've ignored a lot of our physical cues, right?

00;29;38;13 - 00;29;54;27
Unknown
We, I think we, we've been told like, oh like it's fine, think through the pain. You know, we always, we love doing that kind of stuff. And some of that I think is just cultural. And especially as women, it's like, Oh, that's not that bad. It's just a headache. And it's like, Well, what is that headache trying to tell you?

00;29;54;27 - 00;30;13;01
Unknown
Yeah. Are you dehydrated? Is there something else going on? And I hope that we can tap more into that, whether it's in the wellness space or just in general, because I think that we're missing a lot of cues. I definitely think so. I think that listening to body is key and not such a good way to have that conversation with yourself.

00;30;14;06 - 00;30;40;18
Unknown
I am curious because I know you through running, but I also know you through yoga, which is such a gift. So I'm really curious about how yoga came in to your journey and what your I know there are a lot of problems with inclusivity in yoga, so I'd be curious about what your experience with that has been. So it's actually been yoga came to me more so in college like I of course you you hear about it it's part of the lexicon.

00;30;40;18 - 00;31;06;28
Unknown
It's it's part of, you know, o general wellness. And I had taken it as a college student because I needed a physical activity to, you know, check off the boxes to graduate and all that stuff. So, you know, yoga doesn't sound too bad. I can still wear, you know, yoga pants to class and I can go to work after like, I won't feel like I have to go all the way back to my dorm and shower and come back, which is actually a full blown lie.

00;31;06;29 - 00;31;24;14
Unknown
Because if you know, if you've done any form of yoga, you know, sometimes, you know, standing in Mountain Pose will get you into things. If you really if you're really fine, if you're engaged. Yeah. So I started doing it because I also thought that like, oh, the breath work would be good because I have a musical performance degree.

00;31;24;24 - 00;31;40;12
Unknown
And so I was like, All right, well, we'll do yoga. Yoga sounds like a good idea. Some of my sorority sisters are taking it, and I was like, Rock on. And like, it was a win win. And honestly, I really did enjoy it. Of course, like you go through has it. That was fun. But I'll do other things.

00;31;40;12 - 00;31;59;19
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. And so when I moved to Richmond, I think in tandem with like getting into running, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna need to like, stretch out or something. And I don't even I still don't know or don't remember how I really connected with PR Yeah, but I loved it. It was very, it was like that was a great entry.

00;31;59;20 - 00;32;21;24
Unknown
Oh, well, my, my perspective. A good place to enter. Yeah, I think it was perfect for me because not only was it like there were different people, different people, different shapes, different sizes, and also just different levels, like, I remember one gentleman that would come in and like, you know how yoga teachers say, like, you can come in and do savasana, like it's your practice.

00;32;21;29 - 00;32;42;20
Unknown
And there was literally one guy that would always do that. And I'm like, It really is your practice. So then it is permission to do the same. I think that's important when you're like attending a class, if you're pushing in, your body's telling, you know, like if you stopped pushing, other people might stop pushing too. And that might be a conversation to the instructors too.

00;32;42;20 - 00;33;01;11
Unknown
Like, too much. That's not where we are. Not to just class. Like I tend to look at like I give people option of down dog or child's pose. And based off of how many people do down dog versus child's pose, I decide how I pace the class from there. If everyone's in down dog, I think you're ready If you're in Child's Pose, I think, All right, we got it.

00;33;01;11 - 00;33;20;09
Unknown
We're going to blow this away. Then I'm to it. Yeah, I think we're really lucky in Richmond with the just nature of yoga teachers that we have. Because even I mean, you can go to the Y and like you're getting just good instruction. People that care, people that are asking can sit before touching you, which is always a win necessarily.

00;33;20;09 - 00;33;38;04
Unknown
And so and so those like I think that for me that was a really cool space of just like growing and learning. There used to be like a 538. I mean, it's been years now. There was like a 530 classrooms. Perfect, because I could go do the class and then go home, shower and then make it to work on time.

00;33;38;13 - 00;34;01;09
Unknown
And I was like, This is great. And, you know, of course that shifts and changes, but being able to have that supplement my training, but then also in its own way, when I start to like really lean into yoga in like those recovery spaces, it's like, wait a minute, oh, I move better because like, I can feel where in my body I need to stretch.

00;34;01;09 - 00;34;27;09
Unknown
I can feel, I recognize, I can isolate. Oh, that muscle needs a little bit more love. Oh, when I'm in down dog like I can feel like that hamstrings not happy. Yeah okay. That helps me also know And then it allows you to come to where you are because I think that's the biggest thing is that sometimes and this is this is something that we always have to tell runners is that like yoga class is not a competition.

00;34;27;18 - 00;34;53;01
Unknown
Yes. And I know so many runners that have gotten hurt. And are you doing this? And it feels silly, right, Because it's like, how did you do your yoga? But very common. I think it's it's actually very possible to get hurt in yoga if you're not. Yes. And I think the beauty of yoga paired with running is what you're saying of this, like learning to listen to your body so that because I think we got to really know each other when I was teaching yoga for runners.

00;34;53;01 - 00;35;11;19
Unknown
And I think one of my key takeaways personally with yoga for runners is like we're learning how to listen to our body. So when I'm on a run, instead of being like, Ouch, that hurts, let's keep going, must finish, it's like, Ouch, okay, Is that a pain? Because my muscles are tired now, or is that like an actual pain?

00;35;11;19 - 00;35;33;11
Unknown
Is that pain Stop? Yeah. And I think that comes into play on the mat, too. I think often our minds become so loud that, we're like, Oh yeah, more chattering has got to keep going even though my shoulder is ready to crash. But if we learn how to truly listen and actually tap into the fact of yoga, then we're honoring our body and we're not pushing, we're not striving.

00;35;33;11 - 00;35;51;04
Unknown
We're not on to that attachment where present with what's happening, what's going right right now. And I think that that's another thing, because I think even, you know, in yoga, especially in like the early years, for me, it's like I kept thinking on the next thing, I was like, okay. And it wasn't necessarily the next pose. It was like, okay, So after this class, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to go do this.

00;35;51;04 - 00;36;07;05
Unknown
And I'm and you take the dog out and I need to I need to cook dinner. I need to. And it's like, well, well, let's, let's like, enjoy this moment and what's being built out and what's going. And I think the space, it was really good about that, especially like with it being a little bit on the darker side.

00;36;07;05 - 00;36;42;07
Unknown
Yeah, a little quirky. And so as I've shifted more so to a home practice, it's been kind of nice because I don't feel that outside pressure of like other people, like, oh, like she's, she's got to go into child's pose. What's wrong with her? Yeah, it's like, oh, I can't, I can just do this. And so as I'm slowly re connecting back into the, the broader, you know, or going into bigger practices with other people, I'm like, okay, I need to remember that all that like mindfulness that I had at home, I need to bring it with.

00;36;42;07 - 00;37;14;17
Unknown
Yes, because that's the hard part, I think. I think so. And I think that's why like a self practice, whether it's meditation or yoga or any sort of mindfulness based practice, it's really important to have that space on your own and those times where it's like a true practice of you can kind of control the setting a little bit to some degree, so that then when in your mind can get stronger in that space, kind of like working out at the gym so that then when you step out inside the world, you can practice that, you can strengthen that muscle, you can use it because you've built up that muscle.

00;37;14;18 - 00;37;36;29
Unknown
Like now I can pick this up now because I've been strengthening. Yeah, Now I can practice being mindful in this situation when I want to scream and instead of screaming, I'm going to like, take a breath, try to react differently. Yeah, definitely. When I started practicing during the pandemic at home, there was a lot of moments where I'd be like, Nope, nope, my body's not doing that today.

00;37;37;09 - 00;37;54;28
Unknown
That's great. And it was so funny because I was like, I'm going to have to like rain that in like when I go back to class and personal, like I love during that because somebody's going to call them out and be like, Absolutely not. Yeah, this is not today, but it's always been it's been nice. It's been really nice to have that.

00;37;54;28 - 00;38;18;29
Unknown
And then also like using blocks and things, you know, it's silly and not silly because they've always been there, right? We always tell people but they might be, they might be told to grab them. And I know as a teacher I'm guilty of this. It's not often expressed how to use them in each post. So if I give you the invitation to grab a block, but then I'm not showing how you how to use it in a pose, you're like, What do I do with this thing that's here?

00;38;18;29 - 00;38;34;12
Unknown
You want me to, like, build something like And I and it's so funny because I have I have always had blocks and I've never used them either correctly or they just weren't the right thing for what I needed. So I bought like some new blocks because I was like, okay, we're going to just, you know, treat ourselves to some new gear.

00;38;35;02 - 00;39;04;25
Unknown
I like to refresh some of the fitness stuff in my home after a while, but I have I found these blocks and they were so sturdy and I was like, Oh, oh, this is what this is this is what this is supposed to be. Oh, my goodness. It makes a world of difference. And just being, you know, finding those modifications and things I've actually really been enjoying working or watching more yoga teachers in a prenatal space because they're they they're they're having to make space.

00;39;04;25 - 00;39;36;07
Unknown
Yes. For bellies and things. And it's like, yeah. Girl like saying like I have not in the prenatal state of my life but yeah but it's making room for your body and showing you and showing you and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like this modification could have been like, Where is this then? And then, of course, like, you can't give every modification, which I've, I demo strength classes and sometimes I'm like I only have like a minute in the, in the move before I'm like oh I didn't give them this, I didn't give them this modification.

00;39;36;16 - 00;40;01;13
Unknown
But like, I think that modification is so important. Oh, like, and just learning and being okay with it, right? Because that's still honoring your body and still getting the proper format of the pose or the move. Yeah, well, it sounds like you've done a lot of things to support yourself, to feel more included in the yoga space, in the wellness space, from like learning what might other modifications might work for you.

00;40;01;14 - 00;40;25;06
Unknown
Like looking at prenatal yo because you're like, Yeah, my body feels more in tune with that right now and like finding the right props. Like, okay, this one wasn't working, this one's more sturdy. What things have instructors maybe done or not done to make you feel included in a class or in like supporting in it or not? Are there any things that are important that you think instructors should hear?

00;40;25;10 - 00;40;46;07
Unknown
I think for most instructors, just making sure that you're aware of what different bodies might look like, where where, you know, step one of a pose is versus step three. Because sometimes by the time you hit step two and a half, I'm out and it's okay. Because I also know in a community space like there may be some people that are better at three plus.

00;40;47;10 - 00;41;05;02
Unknown
And I love the journey to pose. So I love it when people are doing like the steps that can help. You better get into that last pose. I think that that process is really helpful rather than just like, All right, Half Moon. It's like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There should be like five steps here. Yeah, I mean, like, how do we get there?

00;41;05;02 - 00;41;28;17
Unknown
And I think when we say all levels, we mean all levels, because that is that is a hard spot sometimes, right? Like, how do you make sure that someone who might have a certification in yoga versus someone who's rolling in the first class feels welcome. And I think in it's practice, right? We have to practice those things because if we don't practice, it doesn't become second nature.

00;41;28;17 - 00;41;46;03
Unknown
Yeah. So I think that the fluidity of it and being able to adjust and change on the fly is great because you don't know who's rolling into your class every time. Same thing when we do strength class same thing when I have like folks show up to me for running. I'm like, I don't know what these folks have been through.

00;41;46;03 - 00;42;02;17
Unknown
I don't know what they're experiencing, but I do want to make sure they, you know, they feel welcome. I think it's really important what you name to about like when you say all levels, make sure you mean all levels. I think it becomes almost in some level you're like, well, I want to say all levels for my classes because I want to include everyone.

00;42;02;17 - 00;42;26;01
Unknown
To me, that's being inclusive, but is it actually inclusive? If you're telling someone it's all levels and it's not like maybe it's more inclusive. If you say this one's beginner friendly, this one's intermediate, like this one's X, Y and Z, and then you're really able to support people who are that. So when they come and show up, they feel held, they feel supported, they feel like they can meet themselves where they're at.

00;42;26;01 - 00;42;51;15
Unknown
Right. Because also, you know, just because someone's in a intermediate space. Right. I've been practicing for over ten years. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm not going to not use blocks. Yes. Right. So it's like it might be a more advanced practice to use blocks and the you're talking about in class who did squats. And the whole time, probably the most advanced practice there was like and it was so nice because it was just like, all right, like, and once again, you don't know what those people are going through that day.

00;42;51;15 - 00;43;08;19
Unknown
Like, maybe that was like, I'm going to make it to the studio. I'm going to make it in a community. I'm going to go breathe. And that's what that person needed that day, right? Like, and I was like, I just applauded them because I'm like, I, I never thought about that because people always say it, but you never do it.

00;43;08;27 - 00;43;35;17
Unknown
Yeah They always say, Oh, if you need savasana, just go for it. It's like, Oh, he was going for it. Yeah, I love it. So is there anything that you would suggest for people who want to reframe their relationship with wellness? You know, to feel more I think it's to my perception. You seem to have a very positive relation, not positive.

00;43;35;17 - 00;44;12;06
Unknown
A very like open relationship. With what, Like running yoga. You're you have a passion for fitness. It seems that it's like something you enjoy and are finding joy in. It's helping you find joy within yourself. What is something you would suggest people who want to have a more open relationship with fitness in general? I want people to like try stuff but not feel like you have to stick with something because I think so often people are told like, this is the best way to get fit or, you know, like and it's that might not be for you.

00;44;12;22 - 00;44;28;21
Unknown
Yeah, like I do enjoy Zumba, but I have two left feet, you know, and, and then it's like I would get home from somewhere like, Oh my God, my body hurts like I hurt. And not to say that there's anything wrong with them, but it could be that I was doing it wrong. But I can't do Zumba either.

00;44;28;22 - 00;44;50;26
Unknown
Yeah, but just like exploring those things and being willing to say like that, I tried that. I didn't enjoy it or I tried that. I'm willing to try it again and see how it goes. But also if you find yourself in a space that isn't or does not feel welcoming, it's okay to leave that space. Yes, you do not have to fight the space.

00;44;51;12 - 00;45;15;12
Unknown
There is a space for you somewhere, whether that you create this basing your home. I do like this transition to home fitness. I never thought I would. I thought I would be a gym rat forever. But like with the the the increase of like, you know, peloton at home and like these different, like, opportunities to, like, roll out of bed and work out or like getting your own dumbbells and getting a mirror in your house.

00;45;16;06 - 00;45;37;13
Unknown
Those kind of things made a huge difference for me because I was like, Oh, I'm more willing to do this and I'm more willing to try things because there's no one watching. And that's okay too, right? Yeah, You have to you don't have to be physically in a space in front of other people to make your relationship with wellness real.

00;45;37;27 - 00;45;53;25
Unknown
Yes. Because it I think we got to a place right before the pandemic where it felt like or, at least for me, is that some of that fitness felt performative. Right? Like I have to be here because why not? And like, if people don't see me here, then they won't take me seriously. And it's like, Wait a minute.

00;45;53;25 - 00;46;19;01
Unknown
This is about me and my body and how I see fitness and wellness and maybe being in a certain space or having to sign up for a million different things. Is it what really shows you as an athlete, what shows you as an athlete is what you feel like is being an athlete, Right? We have to like we have to let go of other people's definitions, explanations and tap into our own.

00;46;19;08 - 00;46;48;00
Unknown
Yeah, So that's the biggest thing I think with finding wellness is like tapping into what you what your ideal of being an athlete looks like because we're all athletes in our own way. Yeah, I think that's a really, really beautiful message to leave people with is tapping into in each moment like what is true for you and your body and not being afraid to try and not being afraid to quit to leave, especially if you're entering a space that isn't welcoming and supportive.

00;46;48;00 - 00;47;06;04
Unknown
You don't have to be a part of that. It's not. It's be somewhere that makes you feel good and keep exploring until you find a space that does. And if you want to be a part of a space that isn't you and you feel comfortable, share that. It's just making you feel so it is okay to share because I think a lot of people, like I said before, I don't know what they don't know.

00;47;06;16 - 00;47;25;10
Unknown
And so they might be thinking like, Oh, we've we put out all the diversity and inclusion statements we have done, the things we've done the work, and then like they find out like, oh, we are missing the mark. There are spaces in places where people might be missing the mark and are still willing to work and building change.

00;47;25;10 - 00;47;47;10
Unknown
Yeah, there's a lot of those spaces, but I think people still don't know, and especially if you aren't living in a in a marginalized body. So many people don't realize how other people see what could be going on. So yes, definitely up and say something if you feel comfortable. Yeah, it could be. You don't have it, though. You don't have to.

00;47;47;10 - 00;48;07;28
Unknown
You don't owe them that either. Right. And I think that that's another important thing is like so many times we feel like, well, I really I like the people, but like, I don't want to cause any problems. And it's like sometimes it's in do that value proposition for yourself, right? Like, is it worth fighting and feeling like you're always going to be fighting in this space?

00;48;08;08 - 00;48;35;04
Unknown
Or is it? I want to make it better for the next person coming along or just exploring those feelings is really a good space. Yeah, certainly. I think that's really sage advice and I also think it's important to have conversations like the one we're having right now because people in different roles in the wellness space, in situations like we're used to experiencing the world in our bodies.

00;48;35;04 - 00;49;06;00
Unknown
So I can try to educate myself about other things, but my default mode is based off of my body's experience right? So the more I put myself in uncomfortable situations to have conversations about what I don't know, the more I'm able to integrate that when I'm in other situations. So the more we are willing to share and, you know, feel uncomfortable, make mistakes, the more we can bring in those other perspectives, too, and not be so focused on what's been reared in our bodies and minds time and time again.

00;49;06;01 - 00;49;30;02
Unknown
Yeah, and it's nice. It's good to explore like and I think that once get away from that, like fear of like, oh, I'm worried we're going to do the wrong thing. We're going to make a misstep. Sometimes it's better to make us step in the right direction than to not make the step at all. Yeah, certainly will. How can people continue to learn more about you, support you and the wonderful things you're doing?

00;49;30;10 - 00;49;55;28
Unknown
Yes So I run coach under Fitness Protection program, which is really cool. I am a certified. I don't know if I said that. So if you're interested in being virtually coached by me in my group, you can find this fitness protection program. We're on Instagram, we have a website, you can find me an Instagram at Nakia, our young, and also you can find my podcast at top.

00;49;56;00 - 00;50;39;04
Unknown
What is it? Talking Points with Kiera. It's a really fun one. It is fun. It's all over the place. It is. Topics are different every week and it's been it's been fun to do. So I have an Instagram for that podcast and I also am on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, all the, all the podcasting spots. So awesome will definitely stay tuned and I really appreciate you sharing your experience in these spaces and and helping open up perspectives for other people to help hopefully make wellness spaces more inclusive and overall, just like the way we experience our bodies and fitness and wellness, just like being more open I think is the right word.

00;50;39;06 - 00;51;04;15
Unknown
Yeah. Open and in tune. Open and in tune. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you for taking time to listen to the wise one inside of you today. Please rate review and subscribe to this podcast to help it grow. Until the next time. Let's keep taking it one breath at a time.