The Connection between Yoga, Running, and Personal Growth with Ann Mazur of Runners Love Yoga (57)

Hi everyone and welcome back to How the Wise One Grows. I am really excited today because I get to reconnect with an old friend and teacher and mentor and maser. But before we get started, let's just take a moment to land here now. I know that this will help me, so just take a moment to situate yourself wherever you are, if you can be still, be still And focus on where your body touches the earth And notice where in the body you feel the breath. Take a big breath in, fill your chest, fill your belly with air And exhale, open your mouth, let it out Again. Inhale, fill your chest, fill your belly with air, exhale, open your mouth, let it all go One more inhale And exhale And then return to the sensation of where your body rests on the earth And you can slowly open your eyes as you return to this space. And thank you so much for taking time to hang out with me today.

Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to reconnect and talk with you, and this is going to be great.

Yeah, so, Ann, I haven't seen for years. I think that you taught. I'm trying to remember what class it was, but you taught one of my writing classes.

It was the one credit one through the IG, the Institute for Humanities and Global Cultures. Yes, you like met in that little house.

Yeah, it was such an intimate class.

It was.

I loved it though. Yeah, so we met through that, and then Ann is this. I mean, i'll let you introduce these things properly, but from my perspective, ann is this amazing runner, has a really dedicated yoga practice and her yoga really informs sustainability in her running, and not to mention, she is also just like a badass business owner too. So we'll talk about all the things, But I am someone who always hated running like I never liked it my whole life. It wasn't something I gravitated towards, but when I lived in Nashville, i was in a time where I felt really stuck and restless, and I just started going to this really beautiful park, shelby bottoms for my national people, and I just would spend time running, walking, moving my body, and just fell in love with running through that. So then, as I started to run it more and more I was training for a half marathon I reached out to Ann about, like, how do I not get hurt? How does yoga inform this? Like how can, how can I find balance? So I mean, the stuff you shared with me at that time was so impactful and I really keep as an anchor in my running practice right now. Yeah, so I'm really excited to share your insight with people. Do you mind sharing a bit about yourself, your background?

Yeah, So where do I start? So I met Holly at UVA, so I went to the University of Virginia for my PhD in English And then I stayed and taught there in the English department for several years after that And then kind of all through that time in grad school I had started runners love yoga, so I started that in 2012 because running has always been really important to me. I ran in college for Notre Dame. I was actually a walk on there, but then I got good, so I was gonna walk on like Rudy in the movie. Rudy I was. I was a good.

So how do you also just walk on to professional or like college?

running. It's really hard. So I came here for my PhD in English and I thought I was going to be an English professor but I kind of had this plan B side gig which was runners love yoga And I had a friend from high school who had just graduated from film school in Boston And I was like one of my running friends was like you really need to make a DVD so that I can do yoga.

I was like, oh, I'm gonna make a DVD somewhere in my archive.

She's like you have to make a DVD because I want to do yoga with you every day. And I really liked doing yoga with you And I was like this is a great idea. And when I was at Notre Dame I really got into yoga because it did have such an impact on my running. Like we know Notre Dame is awesome but we didn't have like a metal school or you know, like I felt like sometimes I didn't know what to do To like help myself not be injured. So I kind of just took it into my own hands and like would do research about things, even like in terms of stretching and everything. And then at some point along the way of my Notre Dame career I became like this go to person for the younger kids to like come be. Like my IT band hurts and what should I do. And then my college coach put me in charge of leading team stretching, which I like kind of joke that it was because I was taking forever doing my own stretching routine that I think he thought like let's just put in in charge of this And then maybe a little speed or up, you know, but then like being way if you were injuries that year. So I was really that was my yeah, so that was my senior year And then I heard that like years after that, they kind of tried to keep up with my particular stretching routine, which made me really happy. That's amazing. But my Notre Dame teammates were like and you should be a yoga teacher? So I got certified in yoga right the summer before my PhD And you just said, decided to keep yourself completely busy all the time. I pretty much did. But oh, i feel like getting that yoga certification was so crucial for my PhD Like I graduated fastest of anyone in my cohort I felt like I was a lot less anxious. Like I think it's those times where you feel like you are so busy that you can't possibly fit one more thing into your day where, if you like, force yourself to take a time out for yoga. You know, like even Holly at the beginning of the podcast how you kind of take time out and just like ground yourself. Like if you give yourself space for those sort of things, it like makes everything else that you're doing that feels like quote unquote busy, like way easier. So I'm so thankful for yoga, not just for helping me with my running, but even like my whole PhD was so much easier. Like I definitely didn't tell the English department how much I was teaching yoga either. It was probably not. Yeah, yeah.

I think there's like I can't remember who says this quote, it's missing my brain right now. but they say like oh, if you can't, if you say you can't meditate for 20 minutes a day, you're too busy, like yeah, okay, meditate for an hour a day, you know, like it doesn't take time. It's going to make time for you.

Yeah, it started with that initial DVD. So I had a friend who graduated from film school. I flew up to Boston during a spring break in grad school and she helped me film it And we filmed that like outside a lake in Providence, rhode Island, and that first one went really well. And then, right about that time I met my future husband, philip, and he's in the clothing industry And he was like why don't we make a runner's love yoga singlet? So it started with like this one singlet. So from that initial singlet, like just the active worst side kept growing and growing And I think probably like all along the way I was like, oh, probably just go back into academia at some point. But then, like everything else was going so well And I was like the active wear needs to be its own thing, separate from the yoga. And so runners of yoga is now online streamable yoga workouts. So I have a app that I started during the pandemic and I film weekly classes there And it's that's even better because I can, you know, reach such a broader audience and that initial DVD. And then the active wear is now relay active. So we give 1% the animal rescue and it's all like local small groups. So all the people that I'm benefiting like really can benefit from what I'm giving them. But yeah, like my favorite part of my job is like the creative part, like multiple creative outlets. You know I love, you know the ability to teach yoga and film it, and then you're like able to share it with more people.

I feel like this is probably something I've said on this podcast before and it won't be the last time I say it either. But the worst advice I've ever been given and I've been given it a lot is like just pick one thing and stick to that and be the expert at that. But for me that's always felt. They have so many passions and so many things that I love that. It's like that I'm not whole if I'm not incorporating all of these elements in some way. So I really love how you've taken your love of running, your love of yoga, your creativity all of these components that make you you to build like your own, you know, kind of super house, like to make life work for you. How has that experience been for you? Has it worked out like nicely? Have there been moments of tension there?

That is such. I really like that you bring that up, because I feel like that is so true that I, especially nowadays, like even children. It's like pick your sport child, and then you can only do that sport or like on Instagram. There's all the advice, like to niche down and like only be one thing on Instagram, and then the algorithm helps you out and I'm like but I can't do that, but I'm not an algorithm.

I'm a person.

I'm a person, so, yeah, it's. that's always been interesting, i think, for me, like even in the you know whole academic thing. you know, like I was in academia for 10 plus years and I sometimes felt like there was this expectation that you couldn't be anything but an academic, which was not me at all. I think you're like this too, holly, so I understand why you relate to this too. You know it's. yeah, it isn't always easy, because I think a lot of people do kind of specialize in one thing and then you're like but I do five things And I don't know it makes it so much more fun and exciting. So I kind of don't worry about, like I guess, what other people might think if I'm doing too you know, quote unquote too many things like I'm having fun, so who cares? It is definitely sometimes kind of stressful because you know, you are kind of, you know balancing a lot of different avenues. But that's just, I don't know a small price to pay, I guess, for being able to also, like, have fun with so many different outlets.

Yeah, yeah. How do you keep it fun for yourself? Cause that's also something I've ran into is like making yoga my profession and making ceramics my profession. There came a point where it was like this thing that is so healing for me Now I don't get that same healing from, because there's this work and this pressure around it. So I've been really trying the last couple of years to like bring back that healing and that joy and connection to those things. Is that something you've experienced, i know?

what you mean, cause it's, you know, i think I don't know. The thing that first comes to mind for me is when people talk about this with running. So they'll say you know, i'm not a professional runner, but you know I'm pretty fast. But people faster than me, people faster than me who are actually professional runners, have said you know they actually function better with their running when it's not all that they're thinking about, you know, when it's not like they're running is their only work, like they'll do better when they have a side job or something, so that it takes their mind off of it, or they're more relaxed and they're approached to running because they don't, in a way, have all that pressure on themselves. So I know what you mean too, cause it's like you have to, at the end of the day, also be able to support yourself. You know, like you have to make money to be able to do what you love, which is hard. It's like the you know I don't say starving artist thing, but you know it's you have to be, at the end of the day, also like make ends meet and be able to pay your mortgage.

So yeah, it's a double edged sword.

Yeah, so I understand, like I love to sell more clothes so that I can make more fun colors. You know, like sometimes I'm like, okay, i can make this colorway, but I can't make these four yet. You know, yeah, i think it. Just you have to. Just this is actually where I think having a lot of outlets is helpful, so you just have to focus on, like the one that is going right. You know, at that time, yeah, just remember the things that are going right, you know and then the things that aren't going right. You have to figure out solutions, you know. But at least I think with having many outlets, it like gives you more possibilities for things that are going I mean also going wrong. But Yeah, i'm gonna think about the good things in the, in my many baskets working at once.

I love that advice. It kind of reminds me of like at one point during the pandemic. I was like, uh, freaking, i mean not one point. This happened at many points. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this one particular instance. I was talking to my sister about how I was just kind of like feeling stuck, like didn't really know what to do to figure out how to figure out this next way of a life, and she kind of gave similar advice of just focus on what brings you joy right now, what's feeling good right now, what you're excited about right now. Do that thing first, and then you'll fall. You'll have more energy and creativity as you go into the next to figure out those next steps and pieces.

Yeah, even when I was a math English double major in college it's such a weird combo, i know, but it was weirdly very helpful to have both of them because it was like one of my brain literally got like too tired to do math, i would just switch and do English. So sometimes I almost feel like I do the same thing now, like I will go film a yoga class. Or you know, if I don't have the energy to film a yoga class, then maybe I really have a ton of energy that can go into like designing something. Or you know, i'm also in charge of all that. I'm like literally do everything I need to hire somebody at this point. Or like for real, it's crazy, but I do all the email marketing. So like I do all the things like I'm wearing all the hats. So at least I can switch out the hat that I don't feel like putting on and put on a new one and try to do that So.

Well, you're getting a lot of balance as a person, like a lot of fullness, you're experiencing a wide range, but also like hiring someone is probably great at some point too. Yeah, do you mind sharing a bit Like what made you first kind of fall in love with running and what kind of keeps that love alive for you?

Yeah, sure. So I first fell in love with running. I always wanted to be a good runner but I wasn't So, even in grade school. So I was a year younger than everybody and I've always been like kind of on the smaller side. So I always picked last for gym class. You know, like all, through grade school, people would actually make fun of me Like no, and it's so slow, you know like all. Like no one in a building Who's laughing now, I know, yes, i know. So like literally was picked last for gym class, like kindergarten to eighth grade, and I went to Catholic school and even in second grade I still have this journal that I would write. We would write this journal. I love that they made us do this, by the way But we would write like tear Jesus And like you could tell Jesus anything, and I would always tell him about the books I was reading, which I think is hilarious. And I would tell him like you know, dear Jesus, could you please help me to be faster on the playground? or like, can you make me faster? So I could actually want to win a ribbon it field day in the 100 meter dash, wow, but let me hold. I was not a sprinter, like that was probably never going to happen, so I never won, you know, my ribbon it field day. But then in high school I started running cross country. I started swimming in sixth grade So swimming was my first sport And like the first sport that I really fell in love with And I love swimming. I still love swimming. I swim like almost every day. I love being the water. I think like the water is so therapeutic. So I started swimming in sixth grade And then I started running cross country in high school And I found out like kind of surprise, surprise, i was actually really good at this. So when I was in high school, to like totally different crowds to my grade school and we would run these warm up laps around the high school before we go off on a run, and I just remember like loving this because I was then known as, like the fast girl, which was nice for me, and I would be like running like beating all the boys like during the warm up, without dying, and then everyone else in the schools like out there at front waiting for their buses, you know, and I'm like this is so like including a couple of people. This is my time to shine. Yes, including people I went to grade school with. So I think, like just honestly in high school, when I found out, like surprise, i'm actually really good at running, yeah, it was just like I don't know, almost like sweet revenge against, like everyone who was mean to me in grade school. Yeah, yeah, it was great. So it's fun to be good at something And it was something I always wanted to be good at, but it was like, unfortunately, not good at. I also love what you talked about when you said how you got into running, because I love being outside. So I think a big part of, especially now, my joy in running is, you know, it's like just being outside and exploring, and I can tell you I haven't been on a treadmill in like more than a decade, like I just refused to run in here Can't run on a treadmill. I just don't do that, you know Like I just go to swimming pool at that point if the weather's that bad. But I love being outside. I feel like that's like my outside time I spend so much time on the computer, like doing other things that like I just need to be, you know, and I think of good ideas when I'm running, so it's, it is part like meditative somehow for me. I give my brain a break from everything. I don't bring my phone on my run most of the time, 100% Yeah, so it's a nice break from the craziness that awaits me when I return home.

Yeah, i feel like there's a really interesting parallel that comes in with your success with running, because that relates to your professions too, because I, to my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong here but it seems like such a key component to the ways you've excelled in running And right, like I think, if I'm remembering correctly, like you really started to get better at running when you left college, like that's when you started to get your fastest times, yeah, and it seems really interesting to me that it's like by not just focusing on running alone, by incorporating yoga, by incorporating swimming, by having like a really full, seemingly balanced life, that's how your body has succeeded too.

Oh, 100% I would. So, yeah, you're totally right. So all my PRs are from after college And And most of them are pretty recent too, like within like the past two years. And I, looking back on my college self, i guess what I'm trying to say my college self would be shocked and would not believe that I'm able to run as fast as I am now doing the workouts that I'm doing or actually not doing. So, yeah, my training is definitely very unconventional And I think I'm proof. you just have to find, like, what works for you. Like, i'm literally not doing any running workouts except for races I mean long runs, if you count, just like going the distance. So, yeah, and then I'm just doing like swim workouts, because I like swimming and I really like swim workouts, they're fun, and I'm doing yoga. So it's this weird like trifecta of things that I found works for me. And I'm running definitely way less miles than I was in college. So in college I don't know, depending on who you would talk to, they would say I was low mileage in college too, but I would get to like the low 60s in the summer, which I think that's a lot, that's a lot.

That's a ton. That's a ton A week.

Right, you're talking about a week, so I'd be like in the low 60s for maybe a month in the summer And then in college I was definitely like upper 40s, low 50s most of the time And I think for this last marathon cycle I like barely hit like maybe like 43 or 44 or something was my highest. But like in general, most of the time I'm in the 30s, So and that's easy, you know, but I'm for you.

But what I think is really cool is it seems like resting has been a such key component of your success as well, Like that's. do you mind leaning into that a bit?

Yeah, sure, so well, after every marathon some people are like shocked, but I take two weeks. I don't run at all, you know, and I feel like in college my like mental state about that would have been a lot more anxious. I've been like, oh my God, i'm like losing all my fitness, and I think part of that is just like you're getting wiser as you get older And you know, like the more I've trained, i know that like my fitness is not going to just evaporate overnight. And you know rest is just such a key component of every training cycle, like it kind of makes sense, like you don't go out and like blast every single run that you're doing every single day. You know, like within the weekly cycle you have days where you're going a little easier or you know, yeah, so even seasonally, like building in those periods of larger rest. I think you know I'm 37 now I like to think I don't look 37. You don't. I did have someone like every semester, holly, someone's like what year are you? And I'm like, yes, i still Still got it, i can trick somebody. So yeah, i think, and honestly I think I'm taking my day to day runs a lot easier than I was in college Like and I think as you get older that's even more important too. So I'm like going out and on a run by myself. You know I'm keeping in mind I'm racing at like 530 to like low six minute pace for pretty much any distance, but when I'm going out for just a regular run by myself. I'm doing like 930 pace, you know, I like I'm taking my time And I think, I don't know, I'm just like That's amazing, My body. You know, I probably think I'm really slow comparatively If I didn't race, I don't know, I'm not sure.

So when you race, is that really like the time that you're? you're like all, right now I'm running fast And that's like the only time you train that way.

Yeah, that's like I think I probably should. I don't know, i've like thrown around with, like maybe I should actually be doing some speed work, like maybe I'm really fast and I just don't know, or.

Or maybe this is working for you. Maybe rest is the key And I mean, like you've said in the past, like This rest, this diversity of movement, has helped prevent injury so much. And that it needs. It's like you know, i take two weeks off after a big race, but then, I don't have to take like three, four months off for Exactly An injury like you're going to keep your endurance and your skill that's growing so much more.

Yes, 100%. Yeah, it's. you know I'm going to knock on wood here, but it's been a. it's been a long time since I've had any kind of you know. I've probably had, like I don't know, two, three injuries like that, max, and like my past 10 years of running like it. just That's crazy. Yeah, like some of sometimes they are a little inevitable, like you fall in a hole or something.

Yeah, Happened to me the other week.

But in general, you know, I feel like my system is super sustainable And you know, I I almost couldn't, And I think some runners run themselves into the ground, you know, and it's like, how do you keep doing that, Like what you're doing, on a daily basis for like an extended period of years? But like what I'm doing, I could imagine doing like kind of the rest of my life like easily, because I'm I'm giving myself breaks, you know I'm, you know like having, I'm having a lot of fun. I think it's really important to like, if you're a runner and like listening to this, you know, just remember, you can do things besides run to help your running Like. Sometimes that's hard to do because running is kind of addictive, Definitely. But whether you're swimming or like going to a Zumba class or like going to some kind of strength training class, like anything you can do to kind of strengthen your body for the runs itself, That's also giving yourself a break from the pounding. I think is helping you know and definitely do yoga. I don't know how anyone survives without yoga. honestly, holly, like how do they do it? I would not be able to handle life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

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Well, that's sometimes hard, because I feel like if you're wearing a lot of hats it's kind of what I said before It's like maybe this part of your brain that does these things, that part is tired. So then you switch and you do something else and that part of your brain feels like like I'll feel fresh. It doesn't feel like I'm like running myself into the ground.

It's kind of like cross training.

Yeah. So I think that both like helps me like weirdly rest while I'm doing things, but then I also like, whoa, i actually need to like rest, rest Yeah, and that that is hard. So I don't know. I think I've tried to really just like take time at the end of the day where I'm like, okay, we need to just shut things off. I can't be looking at your computer at 1230 at night, you know, like let's go to bed, or you know, i've I've been really conscious about giving myself space where I'm not doing anything work related at night. I actually think my cats are helpful for that. Like my cats like make me appreciate the little things you know, like they're so cute. They'll be like looking at a bug and I'm like, wow, that bug is pretty cool You know I should look at that bug too. Yeah, exactly So. That, i think, is something that is definitely really challenging, though, especially in this day and age. I feel like in this like tick-tock driven era, people are very like even more go, go, go, attention deficient than you know like five years ago, and we're supposed to somehow like just be robots and just not stop, and I don't know. My husband also works from home And I think he's even more of a workaholic than I am. He needs dozen to yoga, even though I've tried. So I feel like having him next to me and I'm seeing him work too much. It makes me be even better about like okay, we both need to take a break and I'm going to force you to take a break right now, and you know so that'll force me to Yes exactly.

Yeah, so what role has yoga played for you, like beyond, because, right, i can see a lot of runners particularly being like seen, oh, yoga is stretching but they're different, right, So how? how do you, how did you, find the difference between stretching and yoga? And then, how has yoga, asana and the whole practice of yoga informed your running and the way that you navigate your, your work life too?

Uh-huh. Well, I was thinking about this question because this was on your list beforehand and I'm like you know what are the differences between yoga and stretching? And I mean the obvious one is like the mind, body, you know, like stretching is just moving your body and then yoga is you know, you're like moving with your breath, you're like stretching, you know, with your breath, you're like thinking about the whole thing, and I think it's really just the. The main difference is almost even, like, the body awareness that comes with it, like with the whole mind body connection. In yoga, you know, in stretching, i feel like, and I also think, when I was thinking about this, that it depends on how you stretch, right, like, i think there's probably some people who stretch who are actually doing yoga and don't know that they're doing yoga. You know, yeah, um, when I very first got into yoga, um, this was in high school and I was I would just go stretch in a room by myself, like to a Destiny's Child CD, and I was like that was what I would listen to. I had a Destiny's Child CD and I would put Destiny's Child on and she's going to stretch. And I did it because I thought it would help my running, because I was at that point not flexible And you know, and looking back on that, i was, you know, quote unquote just stretching. But I really was like and maybe this is just something to do with like how I am as a person, because I'm super like reflective and I don't know, but I think when I was just stretching, then I actually was doing yoga because I was like, by myself, i was like really taking a time out, like I loved my stretching time, you know. So, I was kind of already tapping into the whole. you know sense of peace that you can gain from yoga and a sense of way more fine tuned body awareness you can get from yoga just by like taking that time out. So I think a lot of it has to do with your approach to how, to the physical movement and you know what you're doing, yeah.

Yeah, the mindset and intention there is such a key component.

Yeah.

And then does the mindset and the practices you've gained from yoga. Is that something that's helped you, like, achieve these big goals? getting your PhD, running these crazy races and setting these big goals Does that play a role?

Oh, 100%. I well, i think, even in, i think, running, for example, runners have sort of this reputation for being super type A, and that's also me. But I think when you add the super type A and then add a lot of yoga to it, you know you're just approaching everything in a much more relaxed way and I feel like you have more, less pressure on you and you do gain sort of you know, this super fine tuned body awareness that you can even use during a running race. Like you kind of have a better sense of like how is my body feeling, like I can keep pushing myself or I cannot keep pushing myself. So, like you just have a better sense of how you can adjust everything so you're functioning in a better way for you. Does that make sense?

Yeah, well you're. You're more in tune with your mind, your ego, and you're more in tune with your body. So you can tell the difference of like right now, body is saying no but ego is saying yes. Or like right now, ego or, you know, reverse. So I think it's that awareness of really deeply knowing yourself and the way your mind is working to be able to witness the patterns and then choose how you're going to direct it. And then having that awareness of your body of like okay, this pain right now is the kind of pain where I need to stop and like take some time, slow down, walk, let's not hurt ourselves. Or like this pain right now is a discomfort because, like, i'm pushing it hard right now but I can keep going with this. So it's a deeper communication with yourself and your body in the present moment and witnessing those thoughts in your mind so that you can make a more informed choice in that moment to not get hurt, to move through your training plan as you mapped it out or to adjust, if that's what your body is telling you at that time.

Yeah, I think yoga keeps you from overdoing it. I think runners just they overdo it sometimes, you know, with the running.

Yoga. People overdo it sometimes too, though you know like there's so many injuries that come in. Yeah, and I think it's when we get addicted to that, like adrenaline that high or we're in that place of state chasing, like I need to do like a 90 minute practice every day to feel good in my body and in my mind, whereas, like I think, when we really start to practice yoga, it's knowing that like you know how you can take those two weeks off a running your mind now can handle it, whereas before you just had to keep going, going, going to keep getting that adrenaline, keep getting that boost.

Maybe there's even something to like. You know, i think we've talked a lot about, you know, yoga helping the running, but maybe running also helps the yoga.

Yeah.

Because I think you're right that yoga people can overdo it too, and maybe runners have a better sense sometimes of like of overdoing it. Like I think people would think, oh yeah, you can overdo running, but can you really overdo yoga? You know? and I think the key to not over, i think if you're actually practicing yoga, maybe, holly, like you aren't overdoing it because you're like taking the time to like step back and be like okay, i need to just do child's pose for five minutes today And that's what I need. I need to stop, you know. So it's all about, like, the self reflection aspect in both of them And I think you know, in running you're constantly kind of evaluating your training. You're like is this working? Is this not working?

Whereas yoga.

Maybe you're just going and doing it in a weird way, you know.

Yeah.

I mean.

I will say I think yoga I mean running has helped my yoga in the broader sense, like before. I got into running I was on the mat, hardcore, like Ash Tongi mindset. I can only do this type of movement like 90 minute minimum a day, and you know, but in small places畫 and shadow make up inside. Then when I started running, i started finding joy And I was like wait, i'm having more fun There's. I'm pretty much pressure on myself here because this is something I don't expect myself to be good at or have any wild goal with, aside from doing it. But then it informed like, okay, my body maybe doesn't move all the same way as I'm not spending as much time on the map, but overall my mental practice of yoga really strengthened because I was able to find more balance in these and maybe my physical practice looks different, but I'm okay with that because, similar to what we've been talking about like now, i have a wider range that makes me feel good, that helps me tune into my body and what it needs, and I can ebb and flow between the two and integrate them as well.

Yeah, i like what we just talked about. I think having both of them and maybe this is the whole thing where it's just healthier to have a diverse range of sports or movements or activities in your life anyway, but I think that the running can maybe even inform the yoga just as much as yoga is informing the running, if you look at it like that, with that like theme in mind?

does the mindset of running and does the mindset and the practices of yoga inform how you're setting goals for yourself? and like how do you meet yourself when you meet your goals and then how do you meet yourself when you don't? Because we're people and we're not always gonna meet those goals. How do you approach that?

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I think, I think I don't know, whenever I'm setting goals, I'm trying to break it down as best I can into smaller chunks. So if I know, I have like a larger goal, i'll think, well, what do I actually need to do that? Then I will think I need to do this thing, this other little thing. So it's kind of helping it to never be overwhelming, as you're always breaking it into smaller chunks. So I think that's my general approach to setting goals, both in running and so with running I'll be like, okay, well, if I wanna run this at my marathon, then I need to do like probably about that for this shorter race, or I'll kind of have a sense of what I need to do to realistically accomplish what I'm chasing down. And then I think business-wise it's kind of the same thing. I think in business I'm almost not even consciously thinking like this is my goal, i'm just thinking like this is what I wanna do, and then I need to do XYZ ABC and then I get then that will inevitably follow. So, yeah, it's funny thinking about goal setting and comparing like sports versus not sports. I think I'm almost like not even realizing I'm doing it in the not sports arena, but I'm doing the same thing, yeah.

Yeah, it's probably just so ingrained with the way you approach everything that like it just flows with what you're doing.

Yeah, i think it's. I don't know. And in terms of when you meet your goals, i don't know. I'm just a happy camper after that, and then you take a break, give yourself a pat in the back and then you go chase something else down. I think it's definitely harder when you don't meet your goals. You then have to take a step back and be like what went wrong here, but try not to beat yourself up. It's. I think people are hard on themselves me included but yeah.

I think, that element is so key. You have to have like some fear, self-compassion there, like I'm not going to beat myself up about this, and because I think often we think like if I'm hard on myself then I'll achieve the goal, but if I'm soft on myself that's not going to happen. But Dr Kristian Neff talks all about compassion and how that increases our willpower and motivation. So when we can be really like gentle but like nurturing and in a strong and powerful way with ourselves and we can keep working towards those goals and those big things, even when we don't meet it in that initial moment And I think that's really cool about what you say about it how you have like an overarching goal but then there are all these baby steps along the way, like it's more of these bite-size things that you can achieve. And then if you don't, it doesn't mean like you fell down the ladder, it's like okay, now just move over here, and like we'll start working this way And maybe the end looks a little different. But the whole thing is in a wash Like that and I think that's where yoga can come in too is like that psychological flexibility to adjust your goals as you're moving through it.

Yeah, and I think it's also hard if you don't meet your goals Not even just beating yourself up like that sort of thing, but you're disappointed. So, like how do you get over being disappointed? So sometimes you have to just give yourself this space to feel bummed out. Yes, then, like, make sure that you get out of that space and remember that there's things you can do, so the next time it's different and it turns out just how you wanted, or better than it just went.

Yeah, 100%. I think I really appreciate you naming that like holding space to like kind of like mourn that loss of like man. I didn't. I worked really hard for this thing and I didn't get the results I wanted. Like, let yourself feel that disappointment Yeah, because I think that's actually, But don't let that disappointment stop you.

Yeah, you don't wanna feel guilty for feeling disappointed, which I feel like is how, like we're almost trained to feel, like sometimes you're supposed to move out of that space so fast. And I'm like, no, i'm actually bummed out, like let me be bummed out for a day and then I'll make sure I get out of it, but let me feel this and then I can move on.

So Yeah, and that's probably like where the mindfulness and yoga comes into. Like feeling that discomfort, not resisting it, yeah, and then continuing on. Yeah, what advice would you give someone who is into yoga but not into running, who maybe wants to start running, and then someone who's a runner but isn't interested in yoga how to start incorporating yoga?

Oh boy. So let's see, we'll start with the runner. Who's does yoga first? So I mean, i just think, like if you're a runner you have to be doing yoga. It's gonna just make your career in running so much longer, like if you're already running, you know you love running, and if you add a little bit of yoga to that, like it doesn't need to be like an hour a day, like if you do 15 minutes of yoga a day, that's still gonna, you know that adds up to almost two hours a week And it just makes such a difference in how you're gonna feel in what we're gonna call your primary sport. So if you wanna keep running, you need to do yoga, because it's gonna let you keep running And you're going to just feel healthier and stronger and faster and more flexible and, have you know, start to cultivate that mind, body awareness that we're talking about. That just makes you like a more adept human being is dealing with everything. So you know, running can be really challenging And I think it's so helpful to have yoga in your toolbox to meet all of those challenges. Whether it's like you have to take a break because you're injured hopefully yoga will help you to not have to do that Or just from the mental side of everything, like I don't know why anyone wouldn't be doing yoga. And then the other thing I'll say is you know, i've sometimes heard from people who they're like oh, i tried yoga and I didn't like it. Like you need to just find the teacher that's right for you. Like there's a teacher out there for everybody and don't judge yoga as a whole by like the one class you went to. Like you have to just keep trying different styles and there's a yoga style and a yoga teacher out there for everybody. So you have to just keep looking until you find that. And then, when you find it, you're gonna know and it's gonna be great.

And they can always keep doing.

They can do yoga with me if they can't find. Yes, you can.

The links will be in the show notes.

And then for the yogi who wants to get into running, i would say, like one thing that I think is really helpful for beginning runners because I teach running for fitness at UVA too, and not that like everyone coming into my class is a yogi, because that's not at all the case, but I get a lot of people who are brand new to running is to just get a friend to come with you. So if you get, if you have company, i think so much of what's fun about running is that it's also social, the training at least. Like there's plenty of people who run by themselves and they love that, and I also run by myself, but I run with my friends and my friends, and my friends It's like I don't know. I don't wanna call it therapy because it's not therapy, but it's You're hanging out, yeah, like it's fun, like I can I love a friend I can run with. it's my favorite Oh my gosh, like you'll talk about deep stuff with somebody if you're running 10 miles with them, you know. So, yeah, find a buddy to go run with you or run walk with you, or even just go on a walk with you. And, you know, build some sort of accountability into your schedule, which is you can do that by running with a friend. Or, like I always tell people who are getting into running, try to like stack it onto another activity that you have to do. So, if you know you have to be like it someplace in the morning at a certain time, you know run right before that. So that's when you like have to do your run. Or you know, bring your running clothes and your shoes with you. So you, you know, run after work. I think that's harder though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and remember, like you don't need to be running. You know 30 miles a week right off the bat. Like you can run three days a week and go out there for like half an hour, you know, and run, walk as long as you need to. So I think you know it's important to remember like you can do running your way and you don't need to be doing. You know a ton of running, to be a runner, you know.

Yeah, definitely. And then one final question is for people who say that they just like, don't like exercise, they don't like movement. Like what would be a good stepping stone, like what would be a why? You know, there's the obvious why's, but like what? is something maybe deeper of like, why should someone be curious about incorporating more movement into their day? And then what might be a good place to start? How can they find that within themselves?

Yeah, I think anytime you're starting, it's hard right. And then I think if they've found that they think they don't like moving, they actually really do like moving. They just haven't done it long enough yet. So if you talk to any runner, like if you're coming back after an injury or something, you know, those first two weeks back you're like, how did I ever do this? Like this feels impossible. And then you get to sort of like this two week mark and you're like, oh yay, I can go run and it feels easier. You know Like not that it's ever gonna be easy, But I think just sticking with it and like seeing it through, you know, whatever form of movement it is like see it through for a certain period of time, like let yourself actually try it, like not just once, Yeah, And not like one bite. Yeah, not the one bite. Let's have like a third of the pie or something.

Yeah.

And then evaluate, like, whether you like it or not, and you'll probably find out you like it. Like there's a certain amount of tricking yourself that goes into exercising. sometimes you know, like I don't know, like during grad school I'd be really tired and I would tell myself like, okay, i'm gonna go out for like just a short little run, like 15 minutes, and then, like before you know what, i would have run for like 45 minutes, you know. So I think sometimes the hardest part is also just getting started. So just like, give yourself like set yourself up for success. you know like, make sure that it's at a time of day or a time of the week. or you know, like do the little things, that it's not gonna be easy to just like skip whatever it is that you're trying and then allow yourself to like really fully try it and then evaluate whether you like it or not. And it's okay if you don't like running, like you can you find something that you actually like. you know like I love swim workouts. So I do swim workouts. Some people would think that's crazy, but I like swim workouts. I think they're a lot of fun and I like just feel so empowered after a really hardcore swim workout, but I don't really like running workouts, so I just don't do them. And you know, like if you just do the things that you like, it kind of works out anyway. So yeah, that's great advice.

That's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. And how can people stay in touch with you, support you and your work?

maybe get some relay active gear, Oh yes, so my personal Instagram is at runnersloveyoga and then my relay active Instagram it's for the company is at relay active, but they can do yoga with me at runnersloveyogatv, so they can just stream it right from their computer. But we also have apps for iOS and Android. It's just search runners love yoga in the app store and they'll find me. There's like almost 300 yoga classes in there now And I have a 16 class yen course in there. It's amazing. I have it all in storage into little categories. You can find exactly what you're looking for. Go check out relay active It's relayactivecom, and they'll find all sorts of awesome active wear there, too. Awesome.

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